Most of you have probably reached this point in GTA IV, but if you haven't and you don't want any spoilers, PLEASE STOP READING, AND GO HERE!

Bill and I ended up having a long IM about who we killed, Playboy X or Dwayne. While the conversation isn't a bad read, what is really interesting is that the game could produce such a dialog. For a game that most of the world thinks is a murder simulator (thanks Jack and Fox!), there is a lot of depth to the characters, and their actions, here. This was true of San Andreas as well. Nico and CJ both come off as "good" people in bad situations. Claude and Tommy Vercetti really had few, if any, redeeming qualities. As a player, I didn't feel anything when I made them run over and kill innocents in their games. That's different for Nico and CJ, if only on occasion. Funny to feel bad about doing something like that when the character does little else but kill. Maybe the missions feel different because you have to complete them to finish the game. Or maybe as a player, I think that the people I'm killing in a mission deserve it "more" because they are "bad", where the people walking down the street are just folk. Whatever the reasons, it shows how well Rockstar has crafted both their game, and their game world.

It still hasn't stopped me from treating the working girls very badly. Maybe I need help.

Below is the transcript, unedited:

Dib
you have the playboy x/dwayne issue yet?

Bill
yes

Dib
and you picked?

Bill
i did
were you asking who i picked?

Dib
yes

Bill
playboy he is day-ed

Dib
i offed dwayne

Bill
oh coo
l
i will unlikely do a 2nd playthrough to find out, so what happened?
what did you get?

Dib
25k
and playboy dropping you

Bill
dropping you? sent guys to kill you? or just stopped being a contact?

Dib
stopping contact

Bill
huh
the money is nice though

Dib
said i was cold, dwayne was like a father, but still paid me
money isn't really an issue in this game

Bill
true

Dib
y u select playboy?

Bill
i don't know... i just thought he was an asshole

Dib
funny, i liked him

Bill
hehe that's interesting

Dib
at least talked a good game about helping people

Bill
i also had the thought that, so far you only had one safehouse in algonquin, so there was the possibility that whoever you killed you got there place, and playboy's place was much nicer
*their

Dib
it was that
my decision was in-character

Bill
so was mine

Dib
dwayne admittadly was not adjusting
and his rise back to power was going to be bloody

Bill
i thought dwayne got a raw deal from someone he had taught his trade to, and from his girl

Dib
and when he snapped, and he would snap, a lot of people were going to be killed before he was

Bill
it is really interesting how asymmetrical the situation is
you know, that may yet happen
dwayne is a bit of a loose cannon

Dib
yep

Bill
so we'll see

Dib
at least PB said he would help people
i wanted nico to say "you best keep your promise, or i come back after you"

Bill
yeah he did but for some reason i figured dwayne would actually be more loyal
and so far he is

Dib
probably so
but if you go with the idea that nico is generally a good person(ish), dwayne is a bad choice to hang with

Bill
that's funny, i saw it the other way around
playboy x seemed like the evil manipulator, dwayne seemed like the honorable victim... by comparison, anyway
our differing views are VERY interesting

Dib
well, dwayne was a victim
but i also saw no redeeming qualities in him
other than similar events in the characters pasts

Bill
when Niko had the final conversation with Playboy X, and at the end said "I already know what I'm going to do", I heard that as "I'm going to kill you"
i already knew who i liked between the two
you know, of all the cool things the game has to offer, this conversation has been by far the most interesting

Dib
true
question

Bill
i was so turned off by playboy x

Dib
would YOU have liked dwayne if they didn't portry nico liking dwayne?
protray
portray

Bill
i think they protrayed it evenly
did YOU get the sense that Niko preferred Dwayne?

Dib
yes

Bill
ah, okay

Dib
the cutscenes pushed a bond between the two

Bill
but also a bond with playboy
i thought

Dib
i thought he treaed playboy about the same as anyone else he met

Bill
that's interesting - if i perceived a preference on Niko's part, it was subconscious on my part
seemed even and impartial to me, the way they set it up

Dib
he deals with brucie and even roman in a decent but distancing manner
but was very generous to dwayne

Bill
i really had no idea who you were "supposed" to off, so i went with my own preference... at least that's how i saw it at the time
did you kill dwayne's girl, or let her go?

Dib
let her go

Bill
same

Dib
but, i see nico as more "good" than "evil"

Bill
same here

Dib
despite the killings
nico is more like CJ
good people in bad spots
i feel almost bad about running over someone as nico
or CJ
but no problem with it in gta 3 or as tommy vercetti

Bill
heh, same here
moreso with niko than CJ, i think because of the more realistic physics of the bodies

Dib
though will still do bad stuff for fun sometimes

Bill
they just look so helpless, flying through the air

Dib
hehe

Bill
i'll keep you posted on what happens with dwayne

Dib
k

Bill
in the meantime, playboy's place is nice

Dib
sharpen your pool skillz

Bill
it won't let you play by yourself, though

Dib
too bad

Bill
i'm curious what dwayne's "bonus" is

Dib
now, i liked playboy better than manny (i have only played 2 manny missions)
dunno

Bill
manny was annoying

Dib
manny seems like he is using nico to kill all the other dealers so he can take over

Bill
hehe
yeah maybe

Dib
so i wont feel bad if the kill manny mission pops up

Bill
yeah i'm in the same camp
hey - have you met Francis and Packie yet?

Dib
nope
what did playboy do when you ent to kill him

Bill
his goons were there, big shootout on the roof, but he ran away
Niko had to chase him... i forget if there was conversation

Dib
dwayne had 1 heanchman, shotgun to face
and then he was in the kitchen, just walking around
saying "dont do this, i though we were tight"
no fight, no nuthin
made me hesitate for a bit

Bill
yeah i think Playboy started talking about how many connections he had and the world of hurt Niko was opening up for himself... made me hesitate, too

Dib
in the end, i felt like i was doing dwayne a favor. funny

Bill
yeah - dwayne was apathetic when Niko called him, after playboy was dead
he was like "well i don't know what to say, i can't pay you cause i got no cash"

Dib
makes sense, he think he wronged him
playboy was upset, but he did pay
so he was only so upset